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Author Topic: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days  (Read 4002 times)

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Online Mustang

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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2019, 12:30:52 PM »
Electric vehicles r not the way to go, like you mentioned with the grid, mining, and what nots. The gas tax would just be replaced with a higher electric tax and have certified stations where you need to refuel. You wont be granted to "refuel " at your house and it will be illegal because the state will push that's its dangerous. The state wont let you get away with not having some type of fuel tax for your vehicle, getting their hands in your pocket. Those government tax breaks are going away for the electric vehicles. imo this is just government trying to sell you something that's not good. Even repair costs are outrageous and from what other mechanics r telling me they must be trained / certified to work on them.

Heck, lets not forget battery disposal costs and who here works in construction? We use battery powered tool a lot and they break, battery goes bad, and when low on power they just "crawl" or just completely shut down. Takes 30 minutes to n hour to recharge, will these vehicles take less then filling up your tank? Forget about going up step hills with low battery levels. Now make these priced for everyone to purchase n put these to everyday use on the roads and see what will happen.

If these were so great states and towns (the biggest emission producers) would of had fleets of these for their DoT, busses, taxis, town official vehicles, police vehicles, fire and EMS vehicles yet they don't. 
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 12:35:39 PM by Mustang »
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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2019, 02:07:55 PM »
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Electric vehicles have their place. It is another form of drivetrain like gas and diesel. I am in the industry and can tell you some of the stuff coming down the pipeline is pretty cool. Not some over priced statement car like a Tesla but a normal priced vehicle. There is potential. They are not for everybody. Until there is a way to "refuel" them with the ease similar to gas/diesel and the amount of "fuel" stations is similar to gas/diesel they will only work in more metro areas or for vehicles that never venture far from home base.

one idea I've had, and the internet is free to steal it, is to have banks of swappable batteries which are pre-charged under the hood whcih you'd exchange from racks at gas stations. The batteries would discharge sequentially (so some would always be charged unless you ran your car completely to empty) and to "fill up" you'd pull out the indicated "emtpies" and swap them for new batteries, paying per-unit. one of the problems with rechargables, besides the long charge time, is their lower energy density compared to fossil fuels, but some non-rechargables (I've heard silver-oxide) have comparable energy densities to FFs. this results in weight/bulk issues which except for lithium (scarce with charging/heating problems) and mega-capacitors (low charge life, heat issues and potential for heavy shocks if not handled/discharged improperly when working on them). so the drained batteries you left at the "battery exchange station" which could replace each fill-pump at a gas station as market forces dictated would go to a "rebuilding factory" next to an electrical generating plant (eliminating the costs of upgrading the grid) which would destroy and then rebuild the batteries as new and charged (in a energy-inputted process) for return to a "swap rack," transported on (eventually) electric big-rigs similar to how gas is transported "the last mile" on fuel trucks today. the batteries should be light enough, 10-15lbs, for most anyone to lift out of the hood of their car and on to the rack and vice versa. you might have 10-20 batteries in a passanger vehicle and many more for large trucks and buses. smaller battieres would be available for motorcycles, lawn mowers and leaf blowers.

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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2019, 02:44:01 PM »
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one idea I've had, and the internet is free to steal it, is to have banks of swappable batteries which are pre-charged ......


Someone beat ya to it. 



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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2019, 03:00:30 PM »
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Electric vehicles r not the way to go, like you mentioned with the grid, mining, and what nots. The gas tax would just be replaced with a higher electric tax and have certified stations where you need to refuel. You wont be granted to "refuel " at your house and it will be illegal because the state will push that's its dangerous. The state wont let you get away with not having some type of fuel tax for your vehicle, getting their hands in your pocket. Those government tax breaks are going away for the electric vehicles. imo this is just government trying to sell you something that's not good. Even repair costs are outrageous and from what other mechanics r telling me they must be trained / certified to work on them.

Heck, lets not forget battery disposal costs and who here works in construction? We use battery powered tool a lot and they break, battery goes bad, and when low on power they just "crawl" or just completely shut down. Takes 30 minutes to n hour to recharge, will these vehicles take less then filling up your tank? Forget about going up step hills with low battery levels. Now make these priced for everyone to purchase n put these to everyday use on the roads and see what will happen.

If these were so great states and towns (the biggest emission producers) would of had fleets of these for their DoT, busses, taxis, town official vehicles, police vehicles, fire and EMS vehicles yet they don't.

Repair costs are "outrageous" because the parts are expensive at the moment. Mechanics need to be technicians and trained. I can tell you with 30+ years of experience most automotive techs struggle with electrical. No make the entire car electric and have high and low voltage systems you will find a lot of our current technicians will not make the cut. In all reality the guys are too stupid to be working on modern stuff. Until there is a licensing requirement for auto technicians like there is for other trades it will not change. I can speak to this with authority.

Electric vehicles by design are actually less complicated from a mechanical side. The electronics are where the complication comes in. Software will be were things get "fixed" in the future. Electric vehicles have 10% of the parts of an internal combustion vehicle.

Just like any new technology it is expensive at first. Costs come down after a while. Remember how expensive flat screen TVs were just 10 years ago?

There will be a place for electric. Working on them or refueling them is no more dangerous than playing around with gasoline. The charging infrastructure will need to be as extensive as gasoline/diesel for it to be a replacement for internal combustion engines.

I would expect to see going forward that you will have to submit your car to a plug in once a year to download how many kwn you used and then pay a tax based on that number. It will be in lieu of an emissions test.


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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2019, 07:00:33 PM »
You keep painting these environment killers like rainbows. From what mechanics tell me these are trouble and software to "fix" the vehicles issues? Look how many people use software to fix their computers and then have more  trouble. Now one would need to worry bout hacks, speed control, viruses, stopping, air bags deploying etc. And these home computers are not on the road getting extreme use dirt rain mud hot cold ice wind etc. etc. Ya keeps getting worse.

If you believe the state / government / vehicle makers will allow you to plug in at your house for update / emission / company of vehicle updates.....Highly doubt it. They want control and to do it at their place / facility, just like recharging will be.

Like I said before if it was all rainbows and unicorns the state, cities, towns, and government would of switched their entire fleets plus town and state vehicles for politicians (or other employees who gets state or town vehicles) to electric.
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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2019, 07:04:57 PM »
Government doesn't upgrade to better stuff to save money. I have seen where states and cities leave cars for 20 years, lining their pockets and dealer friends pockets.  It's always on the news
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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2019, 07:13:27 PM »
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You keep painting these environment killers like rainbows. From what mechanics tell me these are trouble and software to "fix" the vehicles issues? Look how many people use software to fix their computers and then have more  trouble. Now one would need to worry bout hacks, speed control, viruses, stopping, air bags deploying etc. And these home computers are not on the road getting extreme use dirt rain mud hot cold ice wind etc. etc. Ya keeps getting worse.

If you believe the state / government / vehicle makers will allow you to plug in at your house for update / emission / company of vehicle updates.....Highly doubt it. They want control and to do it at their place / facility, just like recharging will be.

Like I said before if it was all rainbows and unicorns the state, cities, towns, and government would of switched their entire fleets plus town and state vehicles for politicians (or other employees who gets state or town vehicles) to electric.

Computers in cars have been hacked well over a year maybe 2+ years ago. It was done to see if they could and they were able to control the steering, brakes and wipers IIRC, probably could stop the engine. Cars today are rolling computers, we don't have to have electric cars for them to be more computer than car. Tesla sends out updates to their cars' software wirelessly. I see the crap job MS et al do on updates and how they eff up computers, how poorly tested these updates are, I sure don't want them updating shit in cars!
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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2019, 09:17:20 PM »
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You keep painting these environment killers like rainbows. From what mechanics tell me these are trouble and software to "fix" the vehicles issues? Look how many people use software to fix their computers and then have more  trouble. Now one would need to worry bout hacks, speed control, viruses, stopping, air bags deploying etc. And these home computers are not on the road getting extreme use dirt rain mud hot cold ice wind etc. etc. Ya keeps getting worse.

If you believe the state / government / vehicle makers will allow you to plug in at your house for update / emission / company of vehicle updates.....Highly doubt it. They want control and to do it at their place / facility, just like recharging will be.

Like I said before if it was all rainbows and unicorns the state, cities, towns, and government would of switched their entire fleets plus town and state vehicles for politicians (or other employees who gets state or town vehicles) to electric.

Not sure how they are environment killers any more than current vehicles are? They do it in different ways. I am just stating the facts. You can have your opinion and listen to whomever is giving you their opinion. I am stating facts. The facts are electric cars are coming, like it or not. I have been in the automotive business for 34 years this year. I am privy to what is in the pipeline.

I see the skill set of most technicians is not keeping pace with the changes in the technology of the automobile. We are at a critical point now. There are not enough bodies to fill vacancies in the workshops. let alone skilled techs that can actually fix this stuff. Most are wanting to be "mechanics" and do engines, clutches, brakes timing belts, etc. Those jobs are all going away and you now need to be able to understand basic electrical theory, some basic digital electronics and work a computer. Most techs are none of these and those are the ones I hear complaining about "how these things are pieces of shit, can't be fixed, etc."

I am not in love with having all these electronic systems in the cars but it is not going away. Internal combustion will be gone within 25 years replaced by battery electric and fuel cell vehicles. Hybrids are a stop gap and are being used mainly to prove technology and get data for long term battery usage.

The BEVs are not ready to replace internal combustion just yet. It is getting there but there are some hurdles that need to be overcome before they can really replace a gas or diesel vehicle.

There will be a time when human driving will be a thing of the past. I am guessing within 50 years. Steering wheels and controls will all be eliminated from the cabin. Scary shit. I love driving.

I do believe the government will "allow" you to charge at home. Like I said I forsee them requiring a yearly inspection where the amount of electricity used is transmitted to the state and you pay a tax on that amount. Not far fetched, that data is already in the control units and the manufacturer can access it. We use it for determining battery life and health.

I am sure when the automobile was coming into play the stable owners were thinking "who would want to drive some mechanical piece of shit that runs on a dangerous chemical when you can ride a nice horse". "You just give it some hay and water and it is ready to go." "Those horseless carriages use gasoline. That stuff is a bomb waiting to explode. " . "I will never get one of those hunks of junk".

Farriers figured they would always have work. How many of them are left? Old school mechanics will be out of work if they don't adapt.

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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2019, 09:04:45 AM »
You can not stop whatever you want to call it whether it's technology, change or progress. We tend to think our time is static and we've done all there is to do and this is it ie the status quo. Change is always happening and at an ever increasing pace. I thought smart phones were a joke when you have a computer, see how brilliant that was!

Charging for electrical charging of a car battery would subject you to paying also on all your other electric usage, I doubt they'll single out car battery charging.
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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2019, 09:39:51 AM »
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You can not stop whatever you want to call it whether it's technology, change or progress. We tend to think our time is static and we've done all there is to do and this is it ie the status quo. Change is always happening and at an ever increasing pace. I thought smart phones were a joke when you have a computer, see how brilliant that was!

Charging for electrical charging of a car battery would subject you to paying also on all your other electric usage, I doubt they'll single out car battery charging.

I can't say I disagree that some "progress" is not wonderful. However things change. Either get with it or fall behind.

If it was up to me I would roll technology back to about 1980.

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Re: Lamont's policy groups recommend big changes for first 100 days
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2019, 09:57:15 AM »
As long as it is not forced upon people I am interested in electric cars. (Have never driven or seen one up close).

Here is some stuff to suck you down the rabbit hole.  (Don't blame me if you spend a day watching youtube videos)



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