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Author Topic: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine  (Read 13192 times)

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Offline BigBluefish

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2018, 05:37:40 PM »
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The video KY Gun Co put up on YouTube yesterday says it will take 26 mags.  They also have it up for sale (just the threaded, 17 round version) for $500 or packaged with a Vortex Venom for 6 something. 

This brings up a question I have.  Will anyone ship a "high capacity" mag with a gun under the assumption that the local FFL will take it, or do we have to wait for the specific model that is supplied with a 10 round mag?  Unfortunately, that would mean we could only get the non-threaded model.

Well, I guess that means I'm getting this before the Shockwave, and a G26 instead of an HKVP9sk. Well, that's two gun choices I don't have to worry about now. Or for the rest of 2018, 'cause that's pretty much my gun budget, right there, unless I sell a kidney.

Online Fyrfytr998

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #78 on: January 13, 2018, 01:17:46 PM »
Just finished watching MAC’s review of this carbine. It was interesting to note that when he did the disassembly of the BCG, it appeared to him that the way it was constructed, that it might be a candidate for multiple calibers. The bolt head looked swappable.

At this point folks have to ask what pressures will the carbine’s construction handle without modification of function. Are there any ballistic experts here who can say if 10mm or .45 are too much for blowback only springs? Would Ruger also have to make a heavier weight to insert in place of the one already in there for 9mm?

As far as price point. A lot of comments on the gun channels seem to come from people in free states saying that they can build a 9mm AR for the same or better. Good for them. Here in CT., the new PC9 will be a very affordable and fun weapon to shoot. I know I’m going to have to sit down and really think about whether I want to spend $500ish or over $1k for an “other”.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 01:18:27 PM by Fyrfytr998 »
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Online Bottom Rung

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #79 on: January 13, 2018, 02:37:11 PM »
Considering Ruger’s previous PCC offerings I would be surprised if they did not release .40S&W and .45ACP carbines in the future.  The range of adjustability in the sights, takedown feature, replaceable mag wells, and heavy for 9mm barrel all seem to point to Ruger having engineered an easily adaptable to other calibers firearm.  Again, I would be shocked if Ruger just left this at a 9mm.

If a $1000 “other” is of consideration to you, then you’re likely not the target market.  Most of us here find the AR to be an excellent firearm. Many, many people do not like the AR, whether it’s the aesthetics or the stigma.  I’m thinking Ruger hopes to get a semi-auto centerfire into those people’s hands.  Getting the guys who already have several types of semi-autos in their safes to buy one, is likely just a bonus.  I don’t know for sure, but that is my guess.

I would expect that Ruger is going to pursue an integrally suppressed “front half”. If it doesn’t come this year, then I would guess it will appear for SHOT 2019.  At that point Ruger could have the potential to introduce an integrally suppressed takedown carbine for possibly under $1000.

Then again, I don’t know. Here’s to hopin’.....

Online imahangtia

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2018, 12:23:33 AM »
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Just finished watching MAC’s review of this carbine......


Me too.  I see what all the excitement is about.  For myself I'm not interested in 9mm, but if they make this in 10mm I will probably buy it.

I am becoming a Ruger fanboy.  They are producing pistols, revolvers, and rifles I either have already or want to buy.


Online LostCanuck

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2018, 07:13:21 PM »
There are absolutely blowback PCCs for 10mm and .45 - the JR Carbine comes to mind.  Generally it's a matter of stiffer springs and heavier buffers. 

Online Bottom Rung

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2018, 07:22:25 AM »
LostCanuck is correct. Furthermore, many submachine guns feature a simple blow back operation, like the Sten.

  The .45 ACP Thompson also features a blow back operation, however, I believe there is a toggle or two to delay the bolt. I’ve stripped one down, but it was a while ago.

Perhaps most famous of all is HK’s roller delayed blowback design utilized in the MP5.

So yes, blow back designs are out there.  They are proven and reliable. The only downside that I know of is that compared to a gas system, the blow back system tends to be heavier.

Online Silverbear

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #83 on: January 15, 2018, 07:55:52 AM »
Yes, the Marlin Camp Carbine was offered in both 9mm and .45 ACP, using the same basic action.  Both of those calibers are easy to work with in a straight (unlocked) blowback action, but the 10mm is a different critter, with significantly higher pressure levels.  Without resorting to a ridiculously heavy bolt, a manufacturer would have to build in some sort of mechanical delay such as the above-mentioned roller-locking HK system.

The Thompson uses the "Blish lock" to delay the opening of the bolt, but it is of dubious value and later versions of the Thompson (M1 and M1A1) did away with it and worked just fine.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

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Online Bottom Rung

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #84 on: January 15, 2018, 08:12:42 AM »
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Yes, the Marlin Camp Carbine was offered in both 9mm and .45 ACP, using the same basic action.  Both of those calibers are easy to work with in a straight (unlocked) blowback action, but the 10mm is a different critter, with significantly higher pressure levels.  Without resorting to a ridiculously heavy bolt, a manufacturer would have to build in some sort of mechanical delay such as the above-mentioned roller-locking HK system.

The Thompson uses the "Blish lock" to delay the opening of the bolt, but it is of dubious value and later versions of the Thompson (M1 and M1A1) did away with it and worked just fine.

Thank you Silverbear. I can’t believe I forgot the Camp Carbine. My thoughts on a Ruger PC Carbine in 10mm are similar. I don’t see Ruger coming out with one.  I’m not entirely sure how the early Ruger .44 Magnum carbines worked, but that may offer some hints. The latter 99/44 utilized a gas system if I’m not mistaken.

Personally, I don’t see a 10mm version coming. The interest in the 10mm is driven by a relatively small portion of the gun buying/shooting market.

Online Silverbear

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #85 on: January 15, 2018, 08:29:51 AM »
The early .44 Magnum carbines were gas-operated also, using a short stroke pistol very similar to the one in the M1 Carbine.

A 10mm carbine would be a real whacker, but if most people are going to use these carbines for casual fun and perhaps competition, there really isn't a need for it.  The HK subgun in 10mm was only produced for a short while and didn't really catch on.  Apparently 10mm holes in bad guys don't do much more than 9mm holes do in the end.  Poking holes in paper targets and ringing steel don't require 10mm power and cost either.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

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Online imahangtia

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #86 on: January 15, 2018, 09:01:18 AM »
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.....the 10mm is a different critter, with significantly higher pressure levels.  Without resorting to a ridiculously heavy bolt, a manufacturer would have to build in some sort of mechanical delay such as the above-mentioned roller-locking HK system.
....


How is that different than a 10mm pistol?  Bolt/slide, spring.  Delay???

« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 09:02:01 AM by imahangtia »

Online Bottom Rung

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Re: Ruger's New Pistol Caliber Carbine
« Reply #87 on: January 15, 2018, 09:18:01 AM »
The longer barrel of a rifle/carbine creates much higher pressure than the shorter barrel of a pistol.  The higher pressure is a result of a more thorough powder burn as well as the gas remaining confined in the barrel for approximately 4 times as long in the case of the comparison of a 4” barrel to 16” carbine barrel. That is an extremely simplified answer. More intelligent folks could certainly answer better.

In the case of the Ruger, to chamber it in 10mm would destroy the modularity of the design. Rather than Ruger just changing a few parts for guns to be chambered in 9, .40, .45, or .357 Sig; Ruger would be changing most everything except the stock and trigger.