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Author Topic: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!  (Read 1944 times)

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Offline CTSAS.INFO

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CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« on: October 12, 2009, 09:54:58 PM »

ctsas.infoAction Letters: coming from State Police! I got mine today - hundreds of letters went out to CT pistol permit holders who had sold handguns to various dealers and are being asked to resubmit the DPS-3 transfer forms. Mine was for a handgun I sold over FIVE years ago to a CT gun dealer! I got my DPS-3 form and will mail to SLFU. Failure to comply by Oct. 22 results in SUSPENSION from transactions!

Online Zindo

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2009, 10:29:55 PM »
I couldn't find mine in 10 years let alone in les that thirty days. I don't think I kept them other than the last two I bought. I can't recall any law that says owners and purchasers are required to keep records of firearms purchases! This is BS. It's their responsibility to maintain the records not ours!

Zindo
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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2009, 10:50:13 PM »
As an buyer, I don't think you are required to keep them, however, as a seller, you are supposed to keep them for 20 years.

"The DPS-67-C is to be retained by the seller for 20 years."

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Offline LTB45

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2009, 08:08:08 AM »
You would think that when you sell a gun to a GUNSTORE, that you would be covered. Private sale I could see keeping the paperwork. Gunstore sale, I would think that the burden would be on the business to make sure that the paperwork is filed, after all they deal with this paperwork on a daily basis.

Offline Lon

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2009, 09:37:52 AM »
For those affected (or just interested in following the situation) you might want to read and follow this thread:

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An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

Offline LTB45

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2009, 10:52:37 AM »
At tonight's CCDL meeting we have a lot of important CCDL business to discuss, but I can guarantee that we will be discussing this subject. Ed Peruta is going to DPS today and will have some sort of answer for us at the meeting.

It might not be the final answer but we will at least hear why..I hope!!!

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2009, 01:13:24 PM »
Crikey, I got one over the weekend and damn near pooped my pants!  This was over two pistols I sold to a DEALER a while ago.

Well, no biggie ... Good thing I'm anal about saving my forms.

Took a trip to the Xerox machines, and a trip to the post office.  I chose to send the copies certified mail with return receipt.

Offline CTSAS.INFO

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2009, 06:56:29 AM »
Quote
As an buyer, I don't think you are required to keep them, however, as a seller, you are supposed to keep them for 20 years.

"The DPS-67-C is to be retained by the seller for 20 years."

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No. Wrong form.

They are referencing the DPSC-3 which is five years.
The DPS-67-C is the questionairre. The DPSC-3 is the short form that looks like a DMV Bill of Sale that has the gun buyer/seller name address, permit #, signatures and the de facto REGISTRATION info on the gun. It's the short form you keep a copy of when you buy or sell a handgun and a copy goes to the seller, the buyer, the state police and the town police of the town where the buyer resides.

The law on that is FIVE years.

In any event:

the letters that went out had the authorization number that was provided by the State for the transaction, the date of the transaction and the name of the dealer.
But, the State is saying they have no DPSC-3 form to match up with that sale authorization. This appears to be affecting citizens who sold handguns to FFL dealers.
After discussion last night at the CCDL meeting, initial conversations with State Police revealed it was a mistake and that those letters were intended to go to dealers and not the permit holding public. In my case, the gun in question I sold to New England Outfitters was more than five years ago. In other cases, I've heard even TEN years ago! I went to New England Field & Stream (took over from NE Outfitters) they provided me again with the DPSC3 that I had from over five years ago (by law you are only required to keep it for five years anyway) and resent it to State Police yesterday by fax and called them to ensure they received it which they did. (I didn't want to take any chances on having my permit # SUSPENDED from being able to obtain authorization #s for transfers. I can tell you that Bob Crook is aware of it, as is NRA. I faxed NRA my letter and got a call back from an NRA attorney in minutes! They're checking into it. Chances are this whole debacle is a mistake on the State's part but the larger question is WHY they want "de facto" registration forms? It is illegal under Federal law to maintain those records beyond 60-days. The State Police has the duty to perform the NICS background check and Authorize the transfer, but NOT to maintain a de facto registry of everyone's guns. More to come soon I'm sure!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 07:00:12 AM by CTSAS.INFO »

Offline CTSAS.INFO

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2009, 06:57:27 AM »
Quote
Crikey, I got one over the weekend and damn near pooped my pants!

Offline Douglas_in_CT

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2009, 08:01:38 AM »
Just to highlight the REAL ISSUE here in case anyone missed it.

Quote
...the larger question is WHY they want "de facto" registration forms?
It is illegal under Federal law to maintain those records beyond 60-days.

The State Police has the duty to perform the NICS background check and Authorize the transfer, but NOT to maintain a de facto registry of everyone's guns.

More to come soon I'm sure!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 08:02:17 AM by Douglas_in_CT »
Regards,
Douglas in CT
- Certified NRA Instructor: Basic Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzle-Loading Rifle
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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2009, 08:14:21 AM »
Sorry, but it's illegal for the Feds to keep the records.  State authorities can register anything they want under state law.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

Claire Wolfe

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2009, 11:37:37 AM »
 ;)

Quote
"Go to the sporting goods store State Police and bring me the form 4473 DPS-3..."





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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2009, 12:24:59 AM »
NRA emailed me today. The number is up to 4,000 letters now. Susan Misoria of NRA Legal Counsel and former CT Liasion spoke with Lt. Paul Vance of CT State Police. Vance reminded her that technically, yes the SELLER is bound to report the DPSC3 for a handgun transfer and RETAIN a copy for FIVE years.
He also reportedly told her that another letter will go out stating that the "suspension" of authorization numbers will only be applied in those cases where a gun turns up used in a crime and the State never received the DPSC3

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2009, 12:42:13 AM »
Yup, got mine 2 days ago.  :-[
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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2009, 07:07:16 AM »
I've looked all through the statutes and I'm wondering where the authority to "suspend" your right to buy and sell firearms is found.

Oh, wait- I was looking in CT laws.  I guess I need to study State Police Law to find it. :o
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2009, 09:01:26 AM »
The CSP "registry" is not even accurate.  If you sell a gun to an out of state dealer there is no DPS3 form involved.  Therefore the gun still shows up on their "list" for you.  This is rediculous.  There is no need for them to have a defacto registry.
Don't touch it. Don't even look at it. Go on, get out. You heard me. Don't look at me either.

Offline scotth

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2009, 09:46:02 AM »
Quote
If you sell a gun to an out of state dealer there is no DPS3 form involved.

Offline CTSAS.INFO

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2009, 06:36:32 PM »
Quote
Sorry, but it's illegal for the Feds to keep the records.

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2009, 08:14:15 AM »
Well, you can argue it all you want, but the existence of the crazy-quilt patchwork of different state laws regarding firearms should sufficiently demonstrate that states can have their own gun laws.  If one of those laws mandates registration at the time of sale, the US Constitution doesn't have much to say about it.  Hell, we just recently got a ruling that the 2nd amendment confers an individual right (and by the skin of our teeth) and we are looking forward to a ruling as to whether the 2nd is "incorporated" under the 14th amendment and restrains state and local governments or not.

Perhaps in the future some of CTs gun laws can be challenged at the federal level, but not right now.  Sad, but true- the constitution only means what five justices decide it means.  The actual words written in plain English don't mean diddly.

And it's not a matter of a state law "pre-empting" a federal one, or vice-versa.  They can co-exist side-by-side just fine and you have to obey both of them.  CTs registry has nothing to do with NICS.  The background check is done at the time of the transfer (using NICS), but the registration happens when you send in your SP-3 like a good citizen.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

Claire Wolfe

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Re: CT State Police - missing DPS3 Burden Gun Owners!
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2009, 09:16:22 AM »
Quote
The CSP "registry" is not even accurate.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 09:16:47 AM by rgaper »
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