Get Adobe Flash player

Get Adobe Flash player

Author Topic: 12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball  (Read 510 times)

Online nor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Highly Active Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 436
  • Country: 00
12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball
« on: January 16, 2012, 07:39:57 PM »
Centurion and Noblesport makes these 12 gauge "ball" shells. 250 for $70.  Would these constitute  "slugs" at ranges that don't allow buckshot?

http://www.sgammo.com/product/centurion/250-rd-case-12-gauge-centurion-1oz-650-caliber-round-ball-1400fps-275-inch-ammo

Online richief

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Highly Active Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2010
  • Posts: 431
  • Country: us
Re: 12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 11:14:42 PM »
Yeah, that would be a slug by most anyones definition.
I don't know how practical of a round it is for stocking or for what purpose, except to go bang.
12 ga barrel is around 3/4" or .75, and can range in guns to about 1/32" either side of that.
It being a round ball, I don't see it being saboted, either with a jacket or Brenneke type, so .650 diameter seems like accuracy would be lacking in any 12ga. gun
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 11:15:49 PM by richief »
“To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude.”
― Thomas Jefferson

Online GreggAndrews

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Highly Active Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 1768
  • Country: us
  • CTG CounterTroll Operations: Young'un Division
Re: 12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 12:08:49 AM »
I was about to say, you'd probably need a super-thick shot-cup-borderline-sabot to make it work.

Lee makes a 1oz. slug mold for $25. I plan on picking one up.  8)
Sometimes you just have to Cowboy Up.

Online Noodles McGee

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Highly Active Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 906
Re: 12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 07:17:50 AM »
Slang term is pumpkin ball.  Yes its a slug just like foster or sabot. Not very accurrate at distance but will perform on game.

The lee ball mould is intresting. They make a lighter one too. A lot of people I know use bulk pack trap loads, dump the shot, melt, pour in mould, set ball back in shell, crimp and hot glue shut.

Just match the weight of the shot to the mold.

Think of your 12ga with a roundball as a breachloading musket
HARDEN THE FK UP!!!

Online nor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Highly Active Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 436
  • Country: 00
Re: 12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 12:27:59 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  I thought it might be an inexpensive alternative for people breaking in shotguns, practicing short range or teaching classes.  By some accounts they do pack quite a wallop though.  At 50 yards one guy said accuracy is "wherever they feel like going."

Online GreggAndrews

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Highly Active Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 1768
  • Country: us
  • CTG CounterTroll Operations: Young'un Division
Re: 12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 01:44:21 PM »
The problem here is, that since the punkin' balls you are trying to launch are so undersize, there is absolutely NO chance for accuracy, unless you use a sabot of some kind (hell, even a patch wrapped around the ball would help a bit!)

Round ball have killing power WAY out of proportion to their size & weight. I've been thinking about casting some .729 round ball when I start loading shotgun shells & using those (not sure of actual diameter, but I'll check on that). Elmer Keith noted the ability of even the tiny .36 (.375) as a very able performer even with it's very diminutive ballistics.

Once you get as big as a conventional shotgun bore though, I think boolit selection starts to matter less & less.  ;)
Sometimes you just have to Cowboy Up.

Offline MadSmith

  • Supporting Vendor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Highly Active Member
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 1364
  • Country: us
  • Praise The Lord And Pass The Ammunition!
Re: 12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 03:29:37 PM »
Slang term is pumpkin ball.  Yes its a slug just like foster or sabot. Not very accurrate at distance but will perform on game.

The lee ball mould is intresting. They make a lighter one too. A lot of people I know use bulk pack trap loads, dump the shot, melt, pour in mould, set ball back in shell, crimp and hot glue shut.

Just match the weight of the shot to the mold.

Think of your 12ga with a roundball as a breachloading musket

I've reloaded hundreds of hulls with cast Lee slugs.  They're good performers.  And more forgiving of variations in lead composition.  Straight melt wheel weights work well.

With regard to repurposed trap loads, one interesting thing you could try is to use low viscosity adhesive.  Dump out the shot, pull out the wad, put a low viscosity liquid adhesive in the shot cup, then pour the shot back into it.  Let capillary action do its work and let it set.  You end up with a DIY semi-frangible.  It flies like a slug, as it flies as a single projectile, retaining velocity much better than a cloud of bird shot.  The shot cup stays with the projectile as it is bonded to it with the adhesive, and acts as a passive directional stabilizer.  This gives it surprisingly decent grouping when fired from rifled barrels.  It hits like a slug, with its retained velocity and low surface area and high sectional density.  It then shatters into umpteen fragments within the target.  Gets far better penetration than bird shot, but not the over penetration of solid cast lead slugs.  Specially the round nosed Lee cast slugs, which tend to excessively over penetrate.  Haven't tried it on live critters yet, but this DIY frangible penetrates 3 inches of pine boards, then blows a mellon sized cavity through the other 9 boards in a 12 inch thick stack.  And an exit the size of a bowling ball.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 03:42:27 PM by MadSmith »
The Freedom Shoppe
07 FLL, Firearms, Sales, Manufacturing, Transfers, Layaways, Exchanges, Consignments, Gunsmithing, Customization, Prototyping
25 Old State Road, New Milford, CT (860)350-3502

Online Noodles McGee

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Highly Active Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 906
Re: 12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 09:04:33 PM »
When you say low viscosity adhesive can you be a little more specific

Elmers?
HARDEN THE FK UP!!!

Offline MadSmith

  • Supporting Vendor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Highly Active Member
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 1364
  • Country: us
  • Praise The Lord And Pass The Ammunition!
Re: 12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 09:26:02 PM »
Elmers is a water based air-dried adhesive, and will not cure properly for this application.  In the experiment, I used leftover acrylic resin from a fiberglass experiment, but epoxy might be better.  I've also tried hot melt glue, but that didn't work so well as it was too viscous and cooled too rapidly.  Superglue on the other hand was a bit too runny.  But it could be made to work if you put in a few drops into the shot cup, poured in some shot, add another few drops, then more shot, etc.  It doesn't need to flood or fill the spaces between the shot, just provide adequate coverage on the touching surfaces to provide a bond. 

Oddly enough, silicone RTV caulk worked well with a BB experiment.  1-3/8oz of .177 copper coated steel BBs bonded with dried caulk out of a 3-1/2 fowling shell.  Don't know how it will work on bodies, but the pseudo-slug held together long enough to punch through 12ga sheet metal, then fragmented into multiple impact puffs down range.  I'll have to test its penetration on two layers of sheet metal, as the idea was a projectile that would punch through a typical car door then disintegrate into steel  shrapnel like a miniature fragmentation grenade inside the cabin.
The Freedom Shoppe
07 FLL, Firearms, Sales, Manufacturing, Transfers, Layaways, Exchanges, Consignments, Gunsmithing, Customization, Prototyping
25 Old State Road, New Milford, CT (860)350-3502

Online Noodles McGee

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Highly Active Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 906
Re: 12 Gauge 1 oz .650 cal ball
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 10:14:28 PM »
Thanks. I don't know much about adhesives. I cut meat all day and play barbie with my girls after work.

I don't get out much
HARDEN THE FK UP!!!